Episode 14 – Russ Hearl
In this episode, David interviews Russ Hearl, Vice President of Sales at PatSnap, a company that offers innovation intelligence, patent searches, and IP analytics. Russ attributes his success to his strong background in cold calling. He addresses the strengths of cold calling and debunks the myth that it is dead. Tune in to find out how he was able to raise $82M for Double Dutch through cold calling, the importance of researching your target market, and some key advice to strengthen your sales teams.
3 Key Points:
1. Cold calling is NOT dead – its success is dependent on a number of factors including the demand for your product and the research you put into targeting those calls.
2. Set up structures, methods, and define roles and expectations clearly for the success of your sales teams.
3. Always use data to analyze your target market and do your research to hit them at the RIGHT time.
Time Stamped Show Notes:
● 00:34 – Introducing Russ Hearl – VP of sales at PatSnap
● 01:19 – Russ’ career in selling started 20 years ago
● 01:27 – He worked for Rolling Stone Magazine in Ohio
● 01:33 – While doing his undergraduate studies, he worked for Merrill Lynch doing cold calls
● 01:42 – By the time Russ finished his undergraduate degree, he already had 6 years of cold calling experience
● 01:46 – To Russ, a sales career can be built around cold calling
● 02:01 – He worked in sales for FedEx, for 7 years
● 02:16 – Russ believed that his abilities in cold calling, prospecting, identifying the target market, and tailoring his pitches were the reasons why he was promoted so quickly
● 02:35 – As Russ progressed and evolved, cold calling was always the basis of his success
● 03:23 – Russ always had the passion of building businesses through sales
● 03:42 – He shares his experience with Double Dutch, raising $82M
● 04:08 – Over 90% of their wins were from cold calling
● 04:28 – Now at PatSnap, Russ has a team of over 45 people across 2 offices
● 04:54 – PatSnap has a very large investment in inside sales
● 05:10 – PatSnap sells innovation intelligence software to professionals and large companies
● 06:03 – They’ve just raised a large series C from Sequoia
● 06:55 – Cold calling results depend on several different factors
● 07:04 – “Your chosen go to market strategy is often predicated upon how much built in demand there is in the market for your product or service”
● 07:18 – Russ explains this further using the example of Hubspot
● 07:44 – The role of cold calling is different for other businesses
● 08:08 – Saying cold calling is dead depends on several factors
● 08:15 – What’s the demand for your product?
● 08:25 – “We’re not running inbound shops”—so we need to reach OUT into the market
● 08:54 – “There’s a significant need for intelligent outbound prospecting” so that you use your time and efforts efficiently as you look for leads
● 09:41 – PatSnap’s significant wins came from outbound cold calling
● 10:26 – The amount of content marketing got everyone on the bandwagon
● 12:44 – “It always starts with targeting”
● 13:28 – Make sure to put together centrally determined territories with account lists
● 14:15 – Have a method for how to reach contacts
● 14:28 – Measure your conversion rates
● 15:23 – Compare your business against businesses with similar market dynamics
● 16:01 – A sales development team helps build opportunities and pipelines
● 17:06 – Sales development transcends as a strategic function of a business
●18:34 – In many organizations, there’s now a merging of sales operations, sales development, and sales strategies into one leadership structure
● 19:36 – The CRO became a title of a person who is in charge of revenue, closing deals, and customer success
● 20:27 – “The linchpin of the organization is your ability to effectively, smartly, target the market”
● 21:19 – Use market intelligence to understand what the competitive landscape looks like
● 21:38 – Setting up an efficient outbound sales machine can defeat the competition
● 21:58 – Russ and his team made millions of cold calls at Double Dutch
● 22:26 – “There is an approach there that works where you can out in front of other businesses before they have the need”
● 23:00 – Waiting for your sales team to improve can make you lose the race
● 24:04 – Double Dutch used data on upcoming conferences and events to sell for those events
● 24:27 – “We can time the market”
●24:44 – PatSnap knows that the companies that produce the most patents are probably the best candidates for them
● 25:34 – Get the information you need and start calls
● 26:14 – It’s vital to know when your fiscal year ends
● 27:14 – The timing of when you target the market can make the biggest difference when it comes to your success
● 28:34 – If calls are missed, they can be missed forever leading to negative ramifications for your business
● 29:10 – Too many sales leaders overlook facts and miss variables
● 29:40 – Representatives may know a lot, but they need a senior leader to centralize strategies for them
● 30:11 – Everybody wants to know the “art” of cold calling but it’s not where the waste is
● 30:50 – The lack of planning is often to blame
● 31:18 – What Russ tries to do in his sales teams is to “improve the transparency of the inputs that it takes to get to the outputs”
● 32:08 – Prevent blaming and unproductive conflict by adoption of the CRM process
● 32:35 – Separate the sales development team from the account executive team
● 33:31 – Changing the structure of teams after they’ve scaled can lead to bigger issues
● 34:49 – There’s a need to spot check to see if all processes are being followed
● 36:14 – Use a comp plan to monitor sales representatives’ behavior
● 36:23 – For example, the plan is to make 80 activities a day
● 36:30 – They may make 60 emails and 20 half-hearted calls
● 36:34 – “Making calls is what you want them to do”
● 36:51 – Consider monitoring only meaningful activities – this does NOT include email sending
● 37:39 – Younger salespeople takes the path of least resistance
● 38:34 – Make sure to design their roles properly
●39:27 – “It’s always been about your business acumen—are you demonstrating personal and professional growth and are you a good team player?”
● 40:00 – Selling is about communication and asking the right questions
● 41:09 – Skills is a mixture of classroom training and in-field exercise
● 42:25 – “If you’re just sending emails, you’re not going to have those swings”
● 43:12 – Invest in yourself, build relationships, and be a great team player
● 44:39 – End of podcast
Show Notes provided by Mallard Creatives
I’m officially declaring 2017 The Year of the SDR Manager.
Ah, the SDR Manager, that beleaguered soul who doesn’t get nearly enough credit for the contribution they make the health of your business. Beat down from so many angles; Sales VPs, their own SDRs, Senior Execs, Marketers, HR, Vendors… the list goes on and on.
In some companies, scant respect and little recognition, unless of course things start going wrong. No clear career path. Not making as much money or getting as much stock as other managers...
It’s a tough, and at times, thankless job.
And yet, their function is vital to connecting marketing spend to real sales results. To creating predictable revenue. To preparing your next generation of Sales leaders. So, what’s going on?
Let’s look at the day in life of the SDR Manager. On any given day they are a career counselor, psychiatrist, sales trainer, analytics guru, firefighter, and interdepartmental translator.
They have to become an expert on managing Millennials. They’re scouting out top talent in a war against all the other companies and competitors. They’re organizing the training and preparation of your next generation of Sales reps.
They’re helping you find high quality meetings, pipeline and revenue for your Sales team. They coaching, hiring and firing. They’re keeping you out of trouble with HR.
They do a lot. And most of them are damn good at it. So where’s the love? Assuming they’re doing a good job, you want them to stick around, right?
OK then, here are a few ways you can take care of them:
Ask how you can help – SDR Managers are constantly being beat up for reports, justification, reasoning. At most companies they have about 5 different bosses; Sales VPs, Marketing Directors, C-Execs, Product, HR...
It would be refreshing if somebody asked them if they needed help occasionally, and followed up. As simple as, “what can I do to help?” works wonders. They need help and are probably too busy to ask. Simple questions; do you need more resources, team training, analytics, coordination? Or more generally; how are you doing?
Recognize their contribution – Nothing beats a good pat on the back. Look at some metrics beyond pipeline and closed/won. How many people have they hired, how are those people doing? What new logos has their team brought in, and how does that benefit your brand? How’s the attrition rate on their team; do people want to work for them?
This stuff is important too, beyond the usual numbers. Give them a platform to show off at Town Hall or the weekly staff meeting. It’s doesn’t always have to be a weekly beat down. They must be doing something right or they wouldn't be around, right?
Offer them management training and mentorship. – Many SDR Managers receive no management training at all, and yet are expected to be Bill Walsh or Bill Belichick right out of the gate. They may have just clawed up from SDR and now have no clue about what management is all about.
This is why a lot of SDR Managers drop-out of management after a few years and return to individual contributor. Teach them how to coach, how to mentor, how to delegate, how to give performance reviews. It builds loyalty and you’ll get better performance from them and their team.
Send them to a conference – Some great ones coming up this year that would very valuable; Revenue Summit, Topo Sales Summit, Rainmakers 2017. Send them to a Topo Sales Development Roundtable. Give them a few days to connect with peers, talk shop and come back with some fresh strategies to help your company.
Be proactive, ask them which conferences they want to go to, and then send ‘em. Ask for a presentation on what they learned.
So there are some ideas, and hopefully this will give you a little push to think about the SDR Manager and what contributions they’re making.
Let’s make 2017 the Year of the SDR Manager!
What are your thoughts?
How does your company take care of SDR Managers? SDR Managers; what does your company do to support you? Would love to hear about it.
David Dulany has built high-performance Sales Development programs for Glassdoor, OpenDNS, Infer and Act-On Software. At Tenbound, he helps companies start, optimize and turnaround Sales Development programs. More info at tenbound.com
Connect with Sean Sheppard: Linkedin Twitter
"If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more, and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
I can't think of a more appropriate quote for this week's guest. As you can tell from the intro, I'm a huge fan of Ralph Barsi. Below, Ralph compiled the notes, links, books and takeaways from our conversation so you can put the ideas into action today! As you can see, he went way above and beyond to make this useful. The sign of a true professional.
Connect with Ralph Barsi: LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram | Website | Email
ServiceNow: Provides service management for every business unit in the enterprise.
Glassdoor: Search millions of jobs and get the inside scoop on companies with employee reviews, personalized salary tools, and more.
AA-ISP: The American Association of Inside Sales Professionals.
InsideSales.com published research in 2013 that showed inside sales growing 300% faster than traditional field sales.
Slide 5 of this presentation shows the inverted org chart / pyramid and illustrates servant leadership.
Adopting a “beginner’s mind” comes from philosophies in the book Zen Mind, Beginner’s Mind by Shunryu Suzuki.
“The more value you add to the marketplace, the more valuable you become” is a quote influenced by Jim Rohn. He talks about it in this seminar (at the 13:44 mark).
Ask open-ended questions and watch how much you’ll learn. Slide 15 of this deck has great examples.
Learn about establishing a performance plan here.
Sales Hacker is focused on building and shaping the future of sales through educational, actionable, and unbiased content and events.
ExecVision provides visibility into conversations happening every day throughout organizations, giving way to a new set of analytics - Conversation Insights.
ExecVision’s Call Camp is a monthly session dedicated to deconstructing real calls to discover what works, what doesn’t, and how you can improve performance.
Learn about LinkedIn Groups here.
Google search “inside sales podcast” or “sales development podcast.”
Take a look at the titles of The Sales Development Podcast episodes in iTunes.
This is one way Ralph Barsi organizes notes.
In January 2015 Ralph created a webinar called Best Sales Development Tools to Use in 2015. David Dulany was a panelist on that webinar.
There are four cornerstones most sales development leaders work from:
Build an ideal LinkedIn profile with help from this article by Koka Sexton.
Use tips from this article to run a Quarterly Business Review as a Sales Development Rep, or “a QBR as an SDR.”
Learn more about GrowthX Academy here. David and Ralph both mentor for the Academy.
Read Ralph’s article titled “The Secret to Becoming an A-Player” to learn how A-Players create systems for winning. He talks about Stephen Curry of the Golden State Warriors prepares for games.
There is no finish line was a popular ad campaign for Nike in the early 1990’s.
Begin with the end in mind is explained in 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen R. Covey.
Learn as if the next day you’ll need to teach someone what you’ve learned. Document your notes in Evernote or Google Docs.
Ralph Barsi’s Five Philosophies:
Vist ralphbarsi.com and subscribe. Ralph will email you a boat load of valuable content for free.
Learn about the Gable Heart Beats Foundation and consider supporting our cause. We raise awareness and work to prevent sudden cardiac arrest. Donations go toward placing AEDs in school gymnasiums and on sports fields, as well as funding heart screenings.
US Navy SEALs
Tuesday night, we hosted our first ever Sales Hacker Sales Development Executive Dinner at Sens in San Francisco. It was attended by some of the top Sales Development Executives in technology today, representing companies such as Google, Oracle, Square, Blackberry, New Relic, Nitro, Mulesoft, Brightfunnel, Box and others.
The conversation theme of the night was Account Based Sales Development (ABSD) and the intersection of Sales, Sales Development and Marketing to build new business pipeline.
As the wise man Jon Miller points out, “accidents happen at intersections”, so you could guess the conversations were lively and some great relationships were formed between these high-powered Execs. Circling the room, I picked up on some of the major themes being discussed…
The dearth of creativity in ABSD tactics... the most valuable commodity for these Execs behind SDR execution seemed to be creativity with regards to ABSD tactics. As everyone becomes more and more data-driven and process-oriented, creativity is becoming more scarce, and coming up with fresh ideas is a main challenge these leaders are facing. How do you stay ahead of noise when all your competitors are reading the same blogs, watching the same webinars, and are armed with the same tools, same SDR profiles, same cadences, same data, same same same? Once a new idea is proliferated online, it gets picked up and used by multiple companies. Prospects become immune, and you become more noise. How do you stay ahead of noise, and crack in to accounts if everyone is sending Fedex envelopes, Remy Martin bottles and Nike shoes?
Marketing and Sales are merging, however... this fact is only being realized by a select number of high-performing ABSD practitioners, many of whom were in the room at the dinner. There are still a TON of old-school leaders on both sides in senior leadership positions out there who are not clued in to this and still treat the two departments as silos. In the next few years, those old-school leaders will most likely go the way of Tyrannosaurus Rex; however, in the near term, they create roadblocks to implementing ABSD. Thought leaders in ABSD will have to spend a lot of time educating people about what ABSD is, how it works and how it will benefit the bottom line. Marketing and sales must be aligned in order for ABSD to succeed, and that means a synergistic relationship between Senior Execs in Sales and Marketing. This will take a lot patience, trust and repetition.
A ton of vendors are serving the space... but without enough solid coordination, operationalization, and SDR training. In the last few years, the response to stay ahead of the competition from many ABSD leaders has been to plug in the latest new tool. But after firing off too many silver bullets, many of the leaders I talked to are now gun shy and becoming more selective before adding anything else. They are tracking attribution with an eagle eye, and being ruthless in ripping out things that aren’t working. Big takeaway for vendor SDRs or CSM’s reading this… SDRs, you better know the business issues and challenges for your ICPs and Personas inside out, and how your product helps solve those pain points, or you will be shunned. And CSMs, you better be all over your accounts, consistently proving out the value of the subscription and ready to dive deep if they aren’t happy. If not, there will be hell to pay.
SDR sophistication will have to go way up to support ABSD… another theme that I heard was that, as the spray and pray method is replaced by a more coordinated ABSD approach, SDRs need to change. The hiring profile, skill level, pay grade, and reputation of the SDR all need to be upgraded. SDRs are not a coin-operated churn and burn operation (as if they ever were), but they are a strategic imperative for a business. And they need to be treated as such. In my view, for companies that are doing ABSD for large accounts, you’ll see the SDR elevated in all ways in the coming years: better management, better training, higher grade hiring profile, higher OTE, and better reputation within organizations. In exchange, SDRs will need to know their stuff: industries, verticals, ICPs, personas, sales skills, phone skills and higher activity levels.
All in all, it was great group having lots of interesting conversations. We’re planning to host these invite-only events for Sales Development Leaders again in San Francisco, and in other markets, so if you’d like to attend please shoot a note over to firstname.lastname@example.org to get on the list.
Recently, I was having coffee in San Francisco with my good friend Chris Ortolano of DiscoverOrg, and he mentioned he was heading over to do a talk at GrowthX Academy. Chris and I are both passionate about training and development, and I thought the Academy sounded interesting, so Chris suggested a meeting with the Sean Sheppard and Will Bunker. I was immediately fascinated by what they are doing. After a few more meetings, we decided I’d become a GrowthX Academy mentor, and it’s been a great experience so far.
I think the GrowthX Academy is filling a huge need in the marketplace.
As a local Sales Development leader, it’s been frustrating for me to see how unprepared people are when entering the workforce for their first or second job, especially when trying to break into Tech Sales.
As I wrote about a while ago on my blog, very few Universities teach Sales as a major, despite the fact that Sales careers are widely available at many companies and are a great first step into the business world. How are people supposed to get prepared or understand how to be successful without a guide?
While there is an active Sales Education Foundation, which verifies Sales programs at Universities, the closest SEF certified programs we have in the tech-heavy Bay Area are up at Chico State and at Cal State Fullerton in Southern California. And their graduates are usually snapped up by Fortune 50 companies before they even hit the Bay Area job market.
So you have a need for skilled Salespeople at tech companies throughout the world, and very few people to fill them, along with massive turnover in the Sales Development world due to misaligned expectations between candidates and hiring managers.
A lot of people decide to become SDR’s in order to “give sales a try,” causing themselves a great deal of frustration and costing the companies that hire them a lot of money. And once newbies enter the SDR role, there is often very little training provided to help them succeed.
People entering the field need to come in with their eyes wide open about what it means to be in Sales for tech company, and if it’s the right choice for them.
GrowthX Academy offers it’s a students a great way to understand the technology industry by immersing students in the start-up world and in turn helping real starts-ups solve solve real-world problems.
Students can get a firm understanding of the Sales side of the business, and understand first hand if it’s a good route for their careers. If they find a great match, it can be the start of something awesome. If they find they are more interested in other parts of the business, that’s great too. The program gives them a chance to explore this in real time, and being a Mentor helps me connect with upcoming professionals and offer my hard-won advice on directions they could take their career. It’s also been a lot of fun.
I look forward to helping the Academy and the students grow in the future!
A key piece of intel that should be on the shelf of all Sales Development leaders is "The Sales Development Playbook" by Trish Bertuzzi.
If you’re a Sales Development professional, or have a Sales Development function at your company you’re seeking to better understand, "The Sales Development Playbook" is a must read.
The book lays out the foundation for the most important aspects of creating a high-performing Sales Development function, including Strategy, Specialization, Recruiting, Retention and Execution, in a logical and easy to follow format.
After being involved in Sales Development function for several years, I was very impressed with the way the book is laid out, and I see it as an excellent overall framework you can use to implement a winning program, all the while putting your own signature on it.
Every company and market is different, but Trish does a great job in laying out the framework to follow.
Breaking out the SDR research function
One of the sections that really stood out for me was the chapter on breaking out your SDR research function. This is something I’ve been thinking about for a while, and something that bemoans most Sales leaders I talk to about SDR’s.
The consensus: SDR’s are generally spending way too much time researching and not enough time interacting with prospects.
It’s about what has been called the “Silent Sales Floor” phenomenon; or the fact that a large percentage of the SDR’s day is now spent doing silent online research on their targets, instead of actually talking with them.
And even if there is a tremendous amount of activity on the sales floor, is it pointed in the right direction? If if they are making a ton of phone calls, are they calling the right people? Are the people they are connecting with able to buy your product?
While specialization of labor has proven to increase business efficiency for years, that fact is being ignored right now by most SDR organizations.
Thought leaders in the Sales Development space have been working on this problem for a while, and I believe it’s an issue that should be on the radar screen of all Sales Development leaders. By being laser focused on the research function, tremendous efficiencies can be unleashed.
A few years ago, Russ Hearl introduced me to the book “The Goal” by Eli Goldratt, which dives into the Theory of Constraints. I would recommend this book, at least in cliff notes.
The basic idea of the book is to focus your attention on your business process, and its inefficiencies, and do everything you can to remove complexity, wasted time and lack of focus on the end goal
It forces you to look at the SDR workflow system with an eye toward ruthless efficiency and ask the question, does having SDRs skipping around to different tabs throughout the day, taking their eye off the ball of calling people, create a lot of wasted time?
Coming back to the Sales Development Playbook: Trish brings up a great point in the Research chapter; by raising the question: why are SDRs spending so much time silently researching and not talking to prospects? Answer: because they can.
With the proliferation of tools available for them to find emails, find direct phone numbers, find facts they can use in their initial outreach, they can get caught up in it all. All the sudden most of the day has passed looking up the right information to enter into Salesforce, or to craft the perfect email and the SDR hasn’t spoken with anyone.
Something else Trish mentions in this section is that the Outsourced providers of appointment setting services figured this out a long time ago because they run everything by the numbers. If they can squeeze more phone calls and conversations into the day of one of their callers, they know they can set up more meetings.
Meetings equal pipeline, pipeline equals closed business.
When Aaron Ross first brought up the Sales Development process in Predictable Revenue it was interesting how he broke out inbound, outbound, closing and customer success. I would say the next big step in structuring SDR programs will be to break out another facet: Research. A team of people whose job is to enable SDRs with the data they need to fill in their sequences with the latest and freshest data.